feet

[zanash]

Here's a quick plug for my mate ....dave [davef on zg] he's been doing some research into feet ,decoupling/coupling between kit and support and speaker stands and cabinets.

His feet are very simple a wooden disc with a ball bearing .....this makes them cheap and simple to try ....the effect on a cdp is quite marked ....best being described as a tightening up and focus of the sound image.

There are subtle differences with different woods and the size of the bearing .....

but if anyones intrested in a sub £20 tweak [cost depends on material and design] you got to give this a go or build yourself a set ....

[j7]

maybe post a pic of them for peeps to see:)

[thrunobulaxx]

You cant beat a nice set of balls ;)in cups, made these for under my T/T

[Paramaribo]

I must say that those feet that Thru made for me with the absorbers for my turntable were an excellent piece of engineering. Looks glam as well.

[zanash]

I'll try to get dave to join here....as he has some good ideas that he has put into practice.

[DavidF]

Hi there,

Cheers Pete; Yes, I've been getting some very interesting results from cones. I'll write more a bit later, just to say "hi" for now....I'll try and get up a pic of an early prototype design...things have moed on since then.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/davidf_photo/Picture2007copy-2.jpg


Thanks again, pete.




D.

[eddie spaghetti]

Welcome to the forum Dave.

Those feet look very nice. There are a couple of folks on here who make stainless steel versions of the isolation feet. Thru and Smojphace. I have seen Chezi's (Smojphace) feet and they are extremely well made.

I have also tried a similar item. JAS audio graphite isolation pucks. They worked extremely well under my CD player.

[DavidF]

Cheers Eddie,

Yes I have had some very interesting results...



:)

[Smojphace]

Hiya David and welcome ;), as Eddie said I have beenmucking aboutwith isolation components for afew yearsnow.

First up was Oak Cones , I wasn't prepared to pay the price for a well known brand of these so I purchased 2 metres of kiln dried oak and made96 conesof 48mm diameter x 20mm high cones on a CNC Lathe at work. Later came the Balls very similar to Thru's , except I didn't dab the bottom as this is basically keeping the ball captive.

I used a 40mm outside diameterGrade 660 stainless steeland machined a 40mm radius (mirror finish) into it 7mm deep and 22mm ballbearing, granted the hifi component does a fair bit of wobbling about but I like that and also I think I have heard an improvement when used under my cdp in particular.

A few people I gave these to try have given positive feedback , there is also one person who has just bought 4 sets of 3 for £90 which is a bargain compared to some of the named brands kicking around. :shock::cool:

I am going to try a smaller radius as the afore mentioned person tried these under a Michell Gyro and was astounded by the results but cueing the arm on/off the record was dodgy due to the amount of movement the balls allow.

Are there benefits using wood ? Does the wood not tend to shape to the ball when heavy components are used ?? Do you find you can "tune" these using different sizes and materials of ball ???

ps I am not making these for personal gain , it was just a bit of an experiment and I will possibly stop making these after the smaller ones as it takes approx 5 hours to machine 10 sets once set-up and machine time is very limited as I work in a sub-contract machine shop.

chezi

[thrunobulaxx]

Those 50mm balls in the pic above were OTT and have been replaced with 25mm ball bearings as you can see in the pic, i too tried various sizes and these seem to be the best size under my T/T which weighs in at around 50+ K`s all together.

BTW Chezi i turned out those "dabs", so the balls can roll about, but with that lot above them they dont move much, unless i give it a good shove, and you are dead right, making them is time consuming especially in 316 stainless.


Hiya and welcome Dave.

[Smojphace]

thrunobulaxx wrote:
BTW Chezi i turned out those "dabs", so the balls can roll about




Thru , I take my hat off to you :notworthy:, doing this on a manual lathe must be frustrating , don't think I would even attempt it. (50mm balls aint too big :cool:)

Stainless steel being as it is tends to be abrasive on the cutting edge of the insert , I had to combat this by roughing all the finished radii then use a new insert set exactly on centre height then take 0.005" of a finishing cut on all the compoments , this ensured a good finish and virtually exact tolerance on the parts , a fine polish with 240 grit wet and dry (wet) and some scotchbrite ensured a mirror like finish.

I've just had a pm from the guy who bought the 4 sets from me saying , and I quote....

" loaned the set you gave me to my brother.... he won't give 'em back! He is using them under his arcam cd transport. He loves what they have done to the sound- better focus, sounds faster etc. When he took them off to return to me, he said his hifi suddenly sounded like shit.....hence he has stolen them=)"

Results like this make me happy , it's not all just FOO is it? :D

btw another well known forum regular and moderator withhighly regarded cdp (and other kit) said the same thing re: the focus just snapping into place.

chezi

[thrunobulaxx]

Well Chezi, thanks, but TBO i ended up finishing them with course emery, gradually getting finer, getting them all the same depth was a bastid tho.:(

As for 50mm being ok,:no:

Check this, looks downright silly imo.:(

[Roksoff]

Stunning work guys, mighty impressive and done with 316, bloody hate machining stainless.

might be busy on the laithe at work for a while, nice project to wile the night shift away.

Would bright bar be any good cos st/st is not easy to get at wwork, as much aluminium as you want but no stainless. Dont think you would get the same polish with bright bar though

think your right about the 50mm b/b's. much prefer the 25's IMO

scott

[DavidF]

Streuth, thats GOOD isolation Thru.

I thought my 19mil balls were getting big (and expensive!).

I shudder to think what 50mil balls would cost round here...

Cosmic ideas though,







:cool:




David

[DavidF]

Smojphace wrote:
Hiya David and welcome ;), as Eddie said I have beenmucking aboutwith isolation components for afew yearsnow.

First up was Oak Cones , I wasn't prepared to pay the price for a well known brand of these so I purchased 2 metres of kiln dried oak and made96 conesof 48mm diameter x 20mm high cones on a CNC Lathe at work. Later came the Balls very similar to Thru's , except I didn't dab the bottom as this is basically keeping the ball captive.

I used a 40mm outside diameterGrade 660 stainless steeland machined a 40mm radius (mirror finish) into it 7mm deep and 22mm ballbearing, granted the hifi component does a fair bit of wobbling about but I like that and also I think I have heard an improvement when used under my cdp in particular.

A few people I gave these to try have given positive feedback , there is also one person who has just bought 4 sets of 3 for £90 which is a bargain compared to some of the named brands kicking around. :shock::cool:

I am going to try a smaller radius as the afore mentioned person tried these under a Michell Gyro and was astounded by the results but cueing the arm on/off the record was dodgy due to the amount of movement the balls allow.

Are there benefits using wood ? Does the wood not tend to shape to the ball when heavy components are used ?? Do you find you can "tune" these using different sizes and materials of ball ???

ps I am not making these for personal gain , it was just a bit of an experiment and I will possibly stop making these after the smaller ones as it takes approx 5 hours to machine 10 sets once set-up and machine time is very limited as I work in a sub-contract machine shop.

chezi

Hi Chezi,

Thanks vm,
The reason i'm using wood are two fold;

1) Its (eg oak) vibration absorbtion qualities (or so its reputed!)

2) Its ease of working!
ie a wood turning lathe was a tenable propostion whereas a metal lathe was not!
Yes, I have found that the b all size is makes a BIG diufference. Just for thr momntI am using 16nil balls...but thats not necessarily the finalconclusion.

Its my intestion to play witht hat idea......using different finishes to cone top (Ithink thats been refered to as thew race?) to see what does what. After much serching I have just turned up a router tool that will give me a precise 16ml hole (thouigh the router machine just packe dup this eve....after approx a week!). What it did do was to give a pretty good fit between cone and ball........good results (IME).

Like yourself I am doing this for personal interest.

I just had a look at your pics......yep, I'm a bit green here, looking at your wall mounted Sondeck (my uncle has one...though not wall mounted) and properly isolated gear ....impressive!


cheers

David

[DavidF]

Whoops, sorry about all the lines....done soemthing not quite right!








:)

[Smojphace]

I only use the 22.2mm balls because they were the best (cheap) option on ebay (15 balls for £4.50 delivered) ;)

Bulk buying from companies selling the smaller sizes would mean having packs of 50 or so and this is too much , I might get in touch with a couple of companies and see if I could purchase 6 off each in the 12 , 14 , 16 , 18 and 20 mm diameters and have a play about.

I have also looked at differing materials , glass (marbles) and ceramics althoughexotic materialstend to be expensive , Ruby is another option but again expensive.

Ball Supplier (http://www.technicalglass.co.uk/product/spheres.html?gclid=CMDHzLTegZECFQSWHgodJ1UJAg) :cool:

I think there is still approx 6" of oak lying around somewhere , might make a couple of cups with this.

chezi

[Smojphace]

Here is some of my handy work..............

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/chezi61/DSCF0691.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/chezi61/DSCF0687.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/chezi61/DSCF0686.jpg

The larger cones were used directly onto the corner bracing of my TT when I removed the base board to quite good effect , haven't tried this since changing plinths tho.:?

Bases of the stainles cups are recessed (middle) to allow use of blu-tac/felt , if desired.:nerd:

Nice wee plug fir ma new DAC , which I'm very pleased with.:^

chezi

[zanash]

some great pic...and balls!

Again we got into this as the comercial offerings were a silly price ..

I've not had much success with the roller ball types ...but the wooden discs with a captive submerged ball have proved time and again effective


I think there could be some pooling of results here !

I've a feeling that a single ball which contacts bothe upper and lower surfaces might do something interesting...I mention this to dave last week...

you need something that going to keep the ball captive till the weights on and then not interfere ....

[Dik Dolan]

Hi folks=)
I'm the bloke that bought the 4 sets from chezi- ayup chezi :) Fookin bargain- top work fella.

I just tried some inbetween my speakers and their plinths. Speakers are IPL S3's the plinths are sand filled mdf boxes spiked onto a paving slab which sit on the carpeted bouncy wooden floor.

Only had time to listen to a couple of records yet, but they are definately NOT foo=) The rollers have made a big change to the sound. The bass seems twice as powerful now (and it was bloody good before), imaging is more 3D, more seperation etc. The treble from the ribbon tweeters seems sweeter too. Why these work under speakers I have no idea. I was always told speakers were suposed to be held rigid..

I need to experiment more with positioning and toe-in I think, the bass isn't quite as even as it was, maybe that's because there is more of it now=)

I need to sort out something to stop the balls from slowly sinking into the MDF too....mucho tweaking to come... and I haven't even tried putting rollers under my amp yet. I did try some under my WD pre/phono/psu for a quick test, but I only listened to one record at very low volumes- too little to be able to report anything yet.

When I put the first set that chezi sent me (for free! how fooking decent is that!!) under my gyrodec it sounded excellent, but I think it matched the frequency of the gyro suspension and would set up crazy oscillations when I even looked at it. More experimentation needed here too, corn plasters as suggested and supplied by chezi, or some silicon goo maybe.

My brother still refuses to give back that first set.. even though they broke his cd transport. Well not really, but they did show that the digi out socket on his Arcam had a dodgy solder joint onto the pcb. Now it's on rollers, opening the cd draw would let it wobble a bit and his dac would lose the connection. My brother had me soldering it back up at 4am....=)

I love what these rollerblocks do, I just need more time to play around yet:)

Thanks chezi. And thanks to zanash too, I love your ag/au cables Pete.

To all those that think stands/feet/cables are foo- fook off, they WORK.

[Smojphace]

Aw shucks :oops:.

Cheers mate , glad they work for you (and your brother) :D.

As I said , I only started all this as I was inquisitive but not enough to part with quite a large sum of money. After my findings I made some more and have given a few sets away for free (7) and recoup some money with the rest.

It's pleasing to know that someone who tried them was prepared to actually buy more , bit of a shock when you bought the lot :shock:, but obviously a good upgrade for the money. Thanks again Dik.:^:^:^

I'll see what I can do regarding some for your TT.;)

chezi

[Dik Dolan]

I didn't mean to embarrass you, sorry=)
You'd make a good crack dealer chezi...give away a freebie than you've got 'em hooked=)

I had read about how effective rollerblocks are, but like you I wasn't prepared to shell out big bucks. I even tried making my own once, using the bottom of coke cans (filled the insides with plaster) and some small balls, but the ally cans were too soft and didnt work very well.

So thanks again for all the time and effort you've put into these, they work! When you said you had some more, I HAD to have 'em! =)

[Chops54]

I was a bit sceptical about these ball bearing isolators so I decided to do some research. I found some interesting bits of info, one of which was entitled "Understanding damping techniques for noise and vibration control" and it states, "The ball form has been picked because it's uniformity has only one single resonant frequency and therefore will not emit other unwanted resonances". Now I had some reasonable explanation of why these worked I bought a set from chezi and installed them under my turntable. This took some time as it's quite difficult to level a tt when it's rolling around all over the place! Now they're in place, they do seem to have a positive effect. I thought at first I had lost some bass but I think that's an illusion. It's because the sound is much cleaner than before. Less conjested and more open. I can hear every instrument in it's own space. I'm impressed. Thanks chezi.

http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/11/73/38/69/my_tur37.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=168&u=11733869)

http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/11/73/38/69/my_tur38.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=169&u=11733869)

Si.

[thrunobulaxx]

Excellent Si, i`m gonna make some trays that size for mine at some point, the 50mm looked daft and have been sold on (only the balls, the cups got made into other things) :)

What diameter are the balls and cups ? the cups look to be around 35mm ? from the pics.

[Chops54]

Hi John. The cups are 35mm, the balls are 20mm. They look just right don't they. I would like to try cups on top as well so if you're reading this chezi, have you got or could you make three more cups? I've ordered some acrylic to replace the mdf and I'm going to put the cdp and psxr on acrylic as well. I can't decide whether to keep the player and psu seperate or put them on the same platform. The tt doesn't wobble aroundanywhere near as badly as I thought it would either.

Si.

[Smojphace]

Chopsaw wrote:
I would like to try cups on top as well so if you're reading this chezi, have you got or could you make three more cups? either.

Si.


I'll send you some when I can get time on a machine.;)

chezi

[Chops54]

Thanks chezi.

Si.

[j7]

havin inspected chezs balls and cups :)
i was stunned ...hes got just the perfect finish...and the angle of the cup is so exact to allow free movement

a wonderful bit of engineering chez
j7

[eddie spaghetti]

j7 wrote:
havin inspected chezs balls and cups :)
i was stunned ...hes got just the perfect finish...and the angle of the cup is so exact to allow free movement

a wonderful bit of engineering chez
j7
Yep. A lot's been said about chezis metal balls.

They make em hard up ther in Fife ;)

[j7]

i got this ball and cup as a present...its a similar idea rotates so smoooth:shock:

its wonderful:)

[j7]

thrunobulaxx wrote:
Well Chezi, thanks, but TBO i ended up finishing them with course emery, gradually getting finer, getting them all the same depth was a bastid tho.:(

As for 50mm being ok,:no:

Check this, looks downright silly imo.:(


thats serious ball size there m8:pirate:



nice 1



j7