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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy831 View Post
    /\ lovely Nick really does know his stuff, and is a really nice bloke too.

    Would like a listen to that amp if your within striking distance Gazjam.
    You'd be welcome to mate, I'm just outside Glasgow if your ever up this direction.

  2. #242
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    What speakers are those?

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIU View Post
    What speakers are those?
    Edingdales.
    http://www.reiver-acoustic.com/edingdale.html

    Heard about them (and heard them play) when I was at the Owsten DIY meet.
    Couple of the DIY fanatics down there were speaker designers and were showing their latest creation.
    Knew right away they were ny next pair of speakers, sound superb, bass down to 32Hz and image like a 'static.
    94dB are a great match for a SET amp.

    Actually, one of the speaker designers is a mate of Nick Gorham and the amp was designed to be a match for the speakers.
    Handy 'dat!
    Last edited by gazjam; 14th June 2016 at 11:10.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazjam View Post
    You'd be welcome to mate, I'm just outside Glasgow if your ever up this direction.
    Arr right, I am just up the road from Nick G, but I will make a mental note and if I find myself up there anytime soon I will PM you

    Cheers

    Andy
    Garrard 301 with SME 3012, Garrard 401 with PU7 both in slate plinths, Puresound P10, Highphonics SUT, Glasshouse TVC Passive Pre, Bel Canto Set 40 (845 power amp), Tannoy GRF Memory`s

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy831 View Post
    Arr right, I am just up the road from Nick G, but I will make a mental note and if I find myself up there anytime soon I will PM you

    Cheers

    Andy
    Sure thing Andy.
    Nicks done good, its a crackin' amp.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazjam View Post
    Edingdales.
    http://www.reiver-acoustic.com/edingdale.html

    Heard about them (and heard them play) when I was at the Owsten DIY meet.
    Couple of the DIY fanatics down there were speaker designers and were showing their latest creation.
    Knew right away they were ny next pair of speakers, sound superb, bass down to 32Hz and image like a 'static.
    94dB a re a great match for a SET amp.

    Actually, one of the speaker designers is a mate of Nick Gorham and the amp was designed to be a match for the speakers.
    Handy 'dat!
    So are multiple small mid/bass drivers better than one big 'un?

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazjam View Post
    Sure thing Andy.
    Nicks done good, its a crackin' amp.
    He usually does, as an untechy myself, he does seem to be able to sort out most problems and design anything Hi Fi related, a good lad to know.
    Garrard 301 with SME 3012, Garrard 401 with PU7 both in slate plinths, Puresound P10, Highphonics SUT, Glasshouse TVC Passive Pre, Bel Canto Set 40 (845 power amp), Tannoy GRF Memory`s

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIU View Post
    So are multiple small mid/bass drivers better than one big 'un?
    Oh yes...

    Subjectivley its in the bass speed I guess, but as they go down to 30 odd Hz its as deep as you'll ever need it too.
    Weird thing is, turn the wick up and your getting thumped in the chest, but as its 4 drivers instead of one big one the drive units hardly move.
    4 units acting as one, distortion and impedance is quartered per drive unit so all good.
    The cabinets are braced and tuned so that they dont sing along in sympathy as well, so you dont hear the box with the sub bass these things put out.

    They'd probably wizz over anything commercial at the price (they bettered a set of 7K Living Voice speakers and the owner sold them for a set of Eddie's) but it took a long time to get there.
    The DIY guys over on Nick G's forum all pitched in over the design process on getting the speakers "right".
    If your a DIY or technical guy, the design & build thread for the speakers over on Audio Talk is a great read.
    http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/v...php?f=4&t=3578

    Another cool thing about them is that you can dial the ribbon tweeter in to suit your room using an L-Pad attenuator at the back to adjust the treble.
    Last edited by gazjam; 14th June 2016 at 11:17.

  9. #249
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    ^ They are priced reasonably too. Without reading through a 23-page thread, how much is the kit?

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIU View Post
    So are multiple small mid/bass drivers better than one big 'un?
    Not normally in my experience. But each speaker should be judged as a finished article, not a collection of bits.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazjam View Post
    Oh yes...

    Subjectivley its in the bass speed I guess, but as they go down to 30 odd Hz its as deep as you'll ever need it too.
    Weird thing is, turn the wick up and your getting thumped in the chest, but as its 4 drivers instead of one big one the drive units hardly move.
    4 units acting as one, distortion and impedance is quartered per drive unit so all good.
    The cabinets are braced and tuned so that they dont sing along in sympathy as well, so you dont hear the box with the sub bass these things put out.

    They'd probably wizz over anything commercial at the price (they bettered a set of 7K Living Voice speakers and the owner sold them for a set of Eddie's) but it took a long time to get there.
    The DIY guys over on Nick G's forum all pitched in over the design process on getting the speakers "right".
    If your a DIY or technical guy, the design & build thread for the speakers over on Audio Talk is a great read.
    http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/v...php?f=4&t=3578

    Another cool thing about them is that you can dial the ribbon tweeter in to suit your room using an L-Pad attenuator at the back to adjust the treble.
    The drivers will have lower distortion perhaps than one of those same drivers driven alone at same volume at listening spot, but generally bigger drivers have way less distortion than small drivers, multiples or not, and fwiw I doubt it's as simple as 4 drivers have ¼ the distortion of one on its own, but it will have less. Although as you mention they have the potential to outperform mainstream commercial models at same cost.

    As for LV comparison, terrible speaker, was fine as a £400 Dali, but £7k plus, someone is having a laugh, lot of deaf fookers out there IMHO.
    Last edited by The Professor; 14th June 2016 at 13:13.

  12. #252
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    But each speaker should be judged as a finished article, not a collection of bits.
    Just like us really.

  13. #253
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    Hi Prof,

    The drivers are wired in series-parallel as far as I know, and I think the more drivers you wire in the Load impedance would drop?
    Wired this way, the overall speaker impedance would be the same as one of the drive units, but the wattage would be 4 times the wattage of a single driver, so impedance effectivley quartered compared to the usual series wiring of a loudspeaker.
    Amp output would be a function of load impedance so lower impedance leads to increased efficiency, which would in turn affect the speakers damping factor...better grip on the driver cone.
    'Cos of all this, the speakers are 94db, real transparent, go REAL deep and bass stops on a dime.

    Pretty sweet for SET amps.

    The smaller cones can react faster to bass impulses, and having 4 of 'em shifts the same air as a big driver...but maybe just does it faster.
    I say smaller, they are still 6 1/2" just that theres 4 of em.
    They measure pretty flat across audio freq's too, big part of that was down to being picky about the drive units, modelling the crossover and tuning the cabinets.

    The guys who made them know their stuff btw, one of them did the Flugelhorn speaker which was pretty well thought of I think.
    Agree with you on any pair of speeks costing 7K...nuts!
    But they were pretty well reviewed so all subjective I guess.

    Getting off the original subject though, sorry chaps.
    Last edited by gazjam; 14th June 2016 at 16:58.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIU View Post
    ^ They are priced reasonably too. Without reading through a 23-page thread, how much is the kit?
    They were £1500 but all are sold out.
    The designers own 2nd hand (last) pair went for AOS recently for £800.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazjam View Post
    Hi Prof,

    The drivers are wired in series-parallel as far as I know, and I think the more drivers you wire in the Load impedance would drop?
    Wired this way, the overall speaker impedance would be the same as one of the drive units, but the wattage would be 4 times the wattage of a single driver, so impedance effectivley quartered compared to the usual series wiring of a loudspeaker.
    Amp output would be a function of load impedance so lower impedance leads to increased efficiency, which would in turn affect the speakers damping factor...better grip on the driver cone.
    'Cos of all this, the speakers are 94db, real transparent, go REAL deep and bass stops on a dime.

    Pretty sweet for SET amps.

    The smaller cones can react faster to bass impulses, and having 4 of 'em shifts the same air as a big driver...but maybe just does it faster.
    I say smaller, they are still 6 1/2" just that theres 4 of em.
    They measure pretty flat across audio freq's too, big part of that was down to being picky about the drive units, modelling the crossover and tuning the cabinets.

    The guys who made them know their stuff btw, one of them did the Flugelhorn speaker which was pretty well thought of I think.
    Agree with you on any pair of speeks costing 7K...nuts!
    But they were pretty well reviewed so all subjective I guess.

    Getting off the original subject though, sorry chaps.
    Sounds as though they would sound pretty decent, although I disagree with you regarding 4 bass drivers, may or may not react faster than a large driver, depends on coils, crossover etc, they don't go deeper though, louder perhaps, but not lower, it's still only 6.5" drivers, I know the theory, but in practice it doesn't work like that due to losses in crossover, drivers etc. I have a 12" driver and bass is enough to make your nose itch, but driver barely moves 2-3mm (well over 100db at 5m from them) no substitute for cubes I'm also not a fan of narrow baffles, baffle reinforcement is not to be underestimated. I'm sure though they sound great, and at £1500 a bit of a bargain, my point about the LV's was not that they were £7k (I can hardly talk given the retail cost of mine) but more that they can charge so much for a veneered mdf box with £150 worth of bits (at oem prices, and I'm being very generous) one of my tweeters costs more than a whole pair of LV's your speakers will no doubt make them sound broken (maybe I just don't like D'Apolito exaggerates the scale of the image and often sounds a bit 'puffy' in the mid bass) if a commercial speaker, yours would be £8-10k ish perhaps more.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Professor View Post
    Sounds as though they would sound pretty decent, although I disagree with you regarding 4 bass drivers, may or may not react faster than a large driver, depends on coils, crossover etc, they don't go deeper though, louder perhaps, but not lower, it's still only 6.5" drivers, I know the theory, but in practice it doesn't work like that due to losses in crossover, drivers etc. I have a 12" driver and bass is enough to make your nose itch, but driver barely moves 2-3mm (well over 100db at 5m from them) no substitute for cubes I'm also not a fan of narrow baffles, baffle reinforcement is not to be underestimated. I'm sure though they sound great, and at £1500 a bit of a bargain, my point about the LV's was not that they were £7k (I can hardly talk given the retail cost of mine) but more that they can charge so much for a veneered mdf box with £150 worth of bits (at oem prices, and I'm being very generous) one of my tweeters costs more than a whole pair of LV's your speakers will no doubt make them sound broken (maybe I just don't like D'Apolito exaggerates the scale of the image and often sounds a bit 'puffy' in the mid bass) if a commercial speaker, yours would be £8-10k ish perhaps more.
    Hear you on excessive markups Prof, thats why for my amp and speakers I went non commercial to get best bang for buck.
    Dont mind spending money (lottery win and I'd go nuts!) but hate wasting it, especially if as you say someones taking the piss.

    No substitute for cubes you say?

  17. #257
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    You'd need two though, and I'd get rid of the wheels, after all I'm an audiophile. Do you think they'd work with my 5" 2 way standmounts.

    Wouldn't mind hearing your amp one day, I like 300b amps, although couldn't live with one as my only amp, due to lack of power. Be nice if you could bring it to Falkirk one day, perhaps it's time I had another soirée since no other bugger is offering.


    Quote Originally Posted by gazjam View Post
    Hear you on excessive markups Prof, thats why for my amp and speakers I went non commercial to get best bang for buck.
    Dont mind spending money (lottery win and I'd go nuts!) but hate wasting it, especially if as you say someones taking the piss.

    No substitute for cubes you say?

  18. #258
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    Be careful of the Elrogs. The 300B's had reliability issues.

    As for the KRs.... I had the 845s. The blew up my power amp.
    20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please God, don't take Kevin Bacon

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Professor View Post
    You'd need two though, and I'd get rid of the wheels, after all I'm an audiophile. Do you think they'd work with my 5" 2 way standmounts.

    Wouldn't mind hearing your amp one day, I like 300b amps, although couldn't live with one as my only amp, due to lack of power. Be nice if you could bring it to Falkirk one day, perhaps it's time I had another soirée since no other bugger is offering.
    Think as long as you could knock down one of your room walls to wheel the buggers in you'd be fine

    No problem hearing the amp Prof, have a hifi mate who's up in Dunfermline could make a detour sometime.
    Theres a bunch of us Scottish hifi Mafia types that get together (mostly from AOS) now and again anytime one of us has something new and shiny in our systems.
    Its a good afternoon out, cakes good music and banter free gratis.
    Welcome to join the clan when I'm having next one at mine in a few months, have the SME V, some new uber cables, and the new 300B amp will have had a few hundred hours under its belt so be singing and dancing properly by then. Like my speakers I guess, a commercial version wouldn't be beer money.

    Nick G fitted a much improved DHT Heater supply board for it recently...makes the glowey bits on the 300Bs better...surprised how much it improved the amp, particularly in power delivery.
    Volume past 9 o'clock gets a bit rude...
    Last edited by gazjam; 17th June 2016 at 20:06.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESK View Post
    Be careful of the Elrogs. The 300B's had reliability issues.

    As for the KRs.... I had the 845s. The blew up my power amp.
    Heard that of the 300Bs yeah, think that was in their early incarnations though some changes made.
    Read a long thread on it on AudioGon, the issues seemed to be on amps that had issues with inrush current to the heaters.
    Spoke with the Elrog guy, design has been changed to make it more robust and my amp has a soft-start circuit built in so should be cool.

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