+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Jolida Music Envoys. Coupling caps upgrade.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Lancashire.
    Posts
    4,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    324037

    Default Jolida Music Envoys. Coupling caps upgrade.

    I know someone else with a pair of Music Envoys, he's an engineer or something for a broadcasting company and we've been sharing thoughts about these monoblock amplifiers. While I was quite happy with the sound I was enjoying from my pair of amps he reckoned that there was some room for improvement with his and decided to investigate further. He pointed the finger at the signal coupling caps and made the decision to replace them. He reported back that after the new caps had settled down, the results fully justified the effort.

    Now my pair are ex dem but as brand new with a full warranty and I was very reticent to mess about with them but the more I listened to them both with different sources and different speakers the more I became aware of maybe a some glare to the sound and with some encouragement and not a little hesitation I decided to replace the caps in my amps too.

    I've used the same caps as he has, these are Russian military spec PIOs and are excellent value too.

    Anyway, here's how the job went,


    Here's the one of the amps on the operating table LOL and the new caps waiting to go in.



    There's a fair bit of stuff inside one of these amps,





    I have to remove the input and driver stage board,



    Those black caps are the ones I'm going to replace,





    I didn't realise how much bigger the new caps were in relation to the old ones and I had to extend one lead on each cap to get them in.



    And that's the board back in. One down, one to go.



    I'll post the listening results soon.
    Si.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Blackshawhead, West Riding
    Posts
    1,239
    Rep Power
    276700

    Default

    Fine work there mate
    Garrard 301 with SME 3012, Garrard 401 with PU7 both in slate plinths, Puresound P10, Highphonics SUT, Glasshouse TVC Passive Pre, Bel Canto Set 40 (845 power amp), Tannoy GRF Memory`s

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    10,935
    Rep Power
    1792654

    Default

    Blimey Si, those Russian caps are a lot bigger. What benefits should they give you and what's the second stage of the upgrade?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Lancashire.
    Posts
    4,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    324037

    Default

    Cheers Andy.

    I'm not intending to do anything else Gary, well not right now any way. I didn't want to change these caps tbh but my accomplice suggested the benefits made it very worthwhile and I caved in. After a couple of hours listening this morning I'm convinced it was the right decision. Things are smoother but bass is not as forceful though it is more inviting. I'm not an out and out believer in this burn in thing but as we all know a old capacitor can be reformed so I see no reason why a new cap can't respond to some initial conditioning. Time will tell.

    I'll be honest and say that once I had the first amp in bits I was thoroughly disappointed by the build quality. The boards are thin, the tracks are a bit shite and some of the soldering leaves a bit to be desired. I'll admit there's a lot of stuff in there, mainly protection circuitry and some expensive iron but I'd expect a bit better for money. I think they retail around 5K a pair which is a lot of money. They didn't cost me that mind as mine were six months old and ex dem but I was still a bit pissed off I might redo the poor soldering or I might just move them on next year but I'll be sticking with 211s or maybe 845s I don't think I'd want to change from these big triodes now
    Si.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    10,935
    Rep Power
    1792654

    Default

    OK Si, I was just responding to your "And that's the board back in. One down, one to go" comment so thought there was another board to change. But I've just realised they are monos so you have two.

    I often hear about poor build quality on supposedly hi-end gear; makes you wonder sometimes what they are charging for. Maybe these companies know they aren't going to sell a lot of units so they have to charge that much to simply survive as a viable concern and what they charge is very little to do with design and material costs.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Blackshawhead, West Riding
    Posts
    1,239
    Rep Power
    276700

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TIU View Post

    I often hear about poor build quality on supposedly hi-end gear;
    Think Gary is right with this Si, although visually from outside the case, the Music envoys look very well finished.

    You know what really puzzled me when I first heard these amps Si; is why not build your own from scratch? Not that I think there is much wrong with the Jolida from my first listening, they are big and ballsy
    Garrard 301 with SME 3012, Garrard 401 with PU7 both in slate plinths, Puresound P10, Highphonics SUT, Glasshouse TVC Passive Pre, Bel Canto Set 40 (845 power amp), Tannoy GRF Memory`s

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Next door to the Clangers
    Posts
    11,835
    Rep Power
    40369209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chops54 View Post
    Cheers Andy.

    I'm not intending to do anything else Gary, well not right now any way. I didn't want to change these caps tbh but my accomplice suggested the benefits made it very worthwhile and I caved in. After a couple of hours listening this morning I'm convinced it was the right decision. Things are smoother but bass is not as forceful though it is more inviting. I'm not an out and out believer in this burn in thing but as we all know a old capacitor can be reformed so I see no reason why a new cap can't respond to some initial conditioning. Time will tell.

    I'll be honest and say that once I had the first amp in bits I was thoroughly disappointed by the build quality. The boards are thin, the tracks are a bit shite and some of the soldering leaves a bit to be desired. I'll admit there's a lot of stuff in there, mainly protection circuitry and some expensive iron but I'd expect a bit better for money. I think they retail around 5K a pair which is a lot of money. They didn't cost me that mind as mine were six months old and ex dem but I was still a bit pissed off I might redo the poor soldering or I might just move them on next year but I'll be sticking with 211s or maybe 845s I don't think I'd want to change from these big triodes now
    if you are sticking with 845's try some MastersounD, don;t take my word for it, ask anyone who owns one (PS the build is stunning )

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Next door to the Clangers
    Posts
    11,835
    Rep Power
    40369209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy831 View Post
    is why not build your own from scratch?
    you seen the voltages going through those valves Andy?

    1k for 845's and 1200-1400 for 211's not fun if you get caught with your fingers in the wrong place.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Blackshawhead, West Riding
    Posts
    1,239
    Rep Power
    276700

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Professor View Post
    you seen the voltages going through those valves Andy?

    1k for 845's and 1200-1400 for 211's not fun if you get caught with your fingers in the wrong place.
    YEBBUT Si knows what he is doing
    Garrard 301 with SME 3012, Garrard 401 with PU7 both in slate plinths, Puresound P10, Highphonics SUT, Glasshouse TVC Passive Pre, Bel Canto Set 40 (845 power amp), Tannoy GRF Memory`s

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Lancashire.
    Posts
    4,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    324037

    Default

    To answer your question Andy, yes maybe I could have built my own but let's be honest, I've got half finished stuff all over the place LOL. My job always seems to intervene and I do a lot for others too. I'd never considered building a 211 or an 845 amp anyway as they're all single ended aren't they LOL.

    Paul, I heard your 845 Mastersound integrated last Christmas, I paid you a visit on my home from Dougie's remember? I came away quite impressed

    As for the build quality, well yes it's bloody good on the outside, you can see all the iron etc, it's just a shame you can't see under the hood. On the plus side, it sounds good and has plenty of grunt. I'll be honest, I thought the thing would have been hard wired, protection circuitry apart That's life I suppose.
    Si.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Lancashire.
    Posts
    4,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    324037

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Professor View Post
    you seen the voltages going through those valves Andy?

    1k for 845's and 1200-1400 for 211's not fun if you get caught with your fingers in the wrong place.

    There's deffo no way I'd take the bottom plate off one of these amps with the thing plugged in. The ring of my arse would be doing an impression of someone chewing a Wurthers toffee LOL.
    Si.

  12. #12

    Default

    Hi Chops

    Do you still have these amps?

    I have the latest version of these amps. I too have upgraded the caps but with Russian Teflon based caps. You think the Russian PIO are tight fit, the teflon caps are bigger. The Russian teflon caps took forever to "burn in" (~200 hours).

    I'm currently running Telefunkin 12AT7's, Winged C EL34's and Psvane 211T MKII's in the amps. I can't say enough about the sound! Awesome. Great bass, sweet midrange and silky extended highs. Beautiful tone. Sound staging is such that you are in the room with well recorded small jazz groups.

    Next will be to hard wire the signal carrying board, when I get around to it. (The build quality inside does leave something to be desired.) For the money (I bought mine direct from Jolida China) they cannot be beat. From everything that I can gather the iron in them is good, just the assembly is lacking in some areas.
    Last edited by PJG7777; 4th February 2014 at 05:06.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Lancashire.
    Posts
    4,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    324037

    Default

    I certainly do still have them. I'm not going to do any more mods to these amps as this may affect the resale value. I think I'm going to build a pair of 845s but I haven't decided which way to go. I've picked up a Mr Lliang 845 to have a mess around with but haven't done anything with it yet. It's still in it's box having been there since I got it home before Christmas!
    I tried 211Ts in my Jolidas but found them too bass heavy so I've gone with ordinary Psvane 211s. I feel these are just right in my system.
    The Jolidas will keep me happy for a long while yet while I decide what I'm going to do.
    Si.

  14. #14

    Default

    Hi Si

    Mods usually add to the value not subtract, if it is done correctly, not that I'll be parting with mine anytime soon! I found the tele's tame the bass that was overblown with NOS Mullard 12AT7's and the stock Shuggies. When I get the time I'll be hard wiring the signal carrying boards (not the power supply / protection boards).

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Lancashire.
    Posts
    4,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    324037

    Default

    Whether stuff is modified correctly or not I know from experience that it can make it difficult to sell a piece of kit unless done by a recognised company that can offer some backup and guarantee. Best of luck with your mods.
    Si.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts