+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 82

Thread: Cheap alternative to Origin Live Upgrade Transformer (PSU)

  1. #41

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by james73 View Post
    This weeks observations.

    Monday - used the unit all evening. Speed was steady all night until around 11pm,
    where it slowed down a wee bit. This meant a clockwise turn on the 33.3rpm pot of
    around 70 degrees or. It ran fine for the next 90minutes or so, before it suddenly
    sounded fast. I returned the 33.3rpm pot to where it was previously, and it ran fine
    once again.

    Tuesday - I started it up, not touching the speed control pots from their positions as
    they were the previous night. It played fine all night.

    Wednesday - similar story to Monday, except the period where I turned the speed up
    bit lasted more like 3 or 4 hours. Once again, it finally sounded too fast and I returned
    the pots to their previous positions.

    Thursday - started off fine for 2 hours or so before it slowed a bit. I turned the pots
    up again, and they stayed in this position all night. There was no speeding up this time.

    Friday - troublesome start to the evening. The pots were in the "faster" position from
    the previous evening, so I let an entire side of an LP play before I looked at it. At this
    precise moment I'm tuning the pots again. The 33.3rpm one is roughly at the "in between"
    position from the previous few nights. I'll be keeping my eyes on this and I'll report back.

    If all this sounds like a major pain in the scrotum, it's nothing compared to the older
    PCB and motor! I'm just wondering if this is a settling down period with the new PCB
    in place or the beginning of more headaches...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------


    James H
    Been away for a long weekend in Dorset, looking after 2 of our grandchildren.
    I had not seen the above until now, it is how my O/L unit behaves; I do not have the option of a different motor to drive my Hydraulic Reference, I had to modify the original Transcriptors sprung motor plate to fit the O/L motor due to the space available, the O/L plate would not fit, unfortunately I no longer have access to a work shop & since retirement I have been told there are other priorities.

    The Maplins PSU made a big difference to the stability however it is not perfect; to quote J7 "bottom line is these units with their handful of parts are never going to be top end...and i expect u will to adjust it every now and again (most school kids are designing better units than this)" I have the earlier board and as I have said I would love to modify it to get the best stability available at a price ie a few caps & resistors, plus and a big plus a step by step guide to values of components & where to place them or a viable alternative PSU controller...

    I have measured our Mains supply over many years it is normally 242/3v lowest i can remember 240v
    Last edited by Big John; 30th September 2013 at 11:36. Reason: omissions

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    glorious Devon
    Posts
    1,090
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    3428817

    Default

    can't help but feel that its not a case of changing a few components for boutique ones, but a fundamental design problem. Nor do I think it a mains problem, unless you live at the end of a very long mains feed from the substation, and there is heavy machinery being used nearby.

    It would be useful if you could measure some voltages, is that possible?
    cheers.....Bryan

    http://qualia.webs.com/

  3. #43

    Default

    "I have measured our Mains supply over many years it is normally 242/3v lowest i can remember 240v". 10 mins ago 242v sub station 100m away as crow flies... I think that a decent PSU controller would be prohibitively expensive.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    glorious Devon
    Posts
    1,090
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    3428817

    Default

    no, I didn't mean the mains voltage, I think that is the least likely cause, I mean the voltage feeding the motor whilst running. There may be a problem with the controller or the motor. Either is likely.
    cheers.....Bryan

    http://qualia.webs.com/

  5. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cat's squirrel View Post
    no, I didn't mean the mains voltage, I think that is the least likely cause, I mean the voltage feeding the motor whilst running. There may be a problem with the controller or the motor. Either is likely.
    Sorry I misunderstood. When I have a few moments I will measure the output voltage of the controller.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    scotland, , United Kingdom
    Posts
    5,809
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    351395

    Default

    ohh just a after thought

    not sure if the OL is a brushed motor ...but if it is--- then when the armature gets dirty the speed drops
    www.audioorigami.co.uk

    And visit my face book page--- check out Audio Origami

    http://www.facebook.com/AudioOrigamiTonearms

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    glorious Devon
    Posts
    1,090
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    3428817

    Default

    went through my mind, too, J7

    John, if you measure the output voltage from the controller, make sure it has a load to work into, either the motor or an equivalent resistance. If the motor is the problem, you may still get a varying voltage, because the load resistance is varying, so to check, do the resistor load check to make sure.
    cheers.....Bryan

    http://qualia.webs.com/

  8. #48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cat's squirrel View Post
    went through my mind, too, J7

    John, if you measure the output voltage from the controller, make sure it has a load to work into, either the motor or an equivalent resistance. If the motor is the problem, you may still get a varying voltage, because the load resistance is varying, so to check, do the resistor load check to make sure.
    Perhaps surprisingly I was going to measure voltage under load, however "do the resistor load check to make sure" I can't quite get my head around. I have a nice new digital volt meter (my 20 year old one gave up the ghost recently)

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    glorious Devon
    Posts
    1,090
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    3428817

    Default

    if you check the output voltage with the motor in circuit, you may find a voltage that varies with time that is caused by the motor malfunctioning, but you can't tell if it's the motor or the supply. If you take the motor out of circuit, and replace it with a suitable resistor, then any voltage variation is probably down to the controller, although it doesn't mean the motor might not be causing speed variation as well!!
    cheers.....Bryan

    http://qualia.webs.com/

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    AT450E, Glasgow, United Kingdom
    Posts
    275
    Rep Power
    74132

    Default

    This is getting a bit too technical for me! All I can tell you is the motor I'm using at
    the moment is the one Origin Live *USED* to provide - a Premotec 9904 18105. Their
    "DC100" is rumoured to be a Maxon 110189 motor and the "DC200" a Maxon 226774
    motor. It's also rumoured the ones they currently sell are no longer sourced in
    Switzerland at all, but this I cannot confirm...


    Further observations

    I mentioned the drop in speed after a while. Well on Sunday night I managed to get the
    brass pulley off the Premotec motor (man, that thing was ON there - I assume it was
    heat shrunk onto the shaft?) and I'm now using the plastic pulley provided by OL.

    I also mentioned that I was using the Maplin PSU plugged into a socket on the opposite
    side of the room from the rest of the hifi. Well, since I did this I haven't observed the
    same pattern of slow down. At least, not yet
    . Of course, it's totally impractical to have
    the PSU and it's cabling lying across the floor, but this was just a test.


    James H
    Last edited by james73; 2nd October 2013 at 02:23.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    AT450E, Glasgow, United Kingdom
    Posts
    275
    Rep Power
    74132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by j7 View Post
    ohh just a after thought

    not sure if the OL is a brushed motor ...but if it is--- then when the armature gets dirty the speed drops
    PDF datasheet for the Premotec 9904 18105:

    http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1685513.pdf


    James H

  12. #52
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    scotland, , United Kingdom
    Posts
    5,809
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    351395

    Default

    looks like they could be described as a brushed motor

    rather than a brushless type

    brushed motors run dirty and produce RF in some small amounts

    brushless motors to me are godlike and work without problems for a lifetime...look at the old rega p2 decks or even the old lp12s or systemdek 11 decks still working after all this time
    www.audioorigami.co.uk

    And visit my face book page--- check out Audio Origami

    http://www.facebook.com/AudioOrigamiTonearms

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    AT450E, Glasgow, United Kingdom
    Posts
    275
    Rep Power
    74132

    Default

    Here's the PDF datasheet for the Maxon 110189 motor, "allegedly" the OL DC100:
    http://www.maxonmotor.com/medias/sys.../13_127_EN.pdf


    And, for the Maxon 226774 motor, "allegedly" the OL DC200:
    http://www.maxonmotor.com/medias/sys.../13_156_EN.pdf



    BTW, nearly 2.30am and no slow down on my current set-up...


    James H

  14. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by james73 View Post
    Further observations

    I mentioned the drop in speed after a while. Well on Sunday night I managed to get the
    brass pulley off the Premotec motor (man, that thing was ON there - I assume it was
    heat shrunk onto the shaft?) and I'm now using the plastic pulley provided by OL.

    I also mentioned that I was using the Maplin PSU plugged into a socket on the opposite
    side of the room from the rest of the hifi. Well, since I did this I haven't observed the
    same pattern of slow down. At least, not yet
    . Of course, it's totally impractical to have
    the PSU and it's cabling lying across the floor, but this was just a test.


    James H
    From Origin Live Instruction book that I found on line.

    EXTERNAL DC MOTOR KIT INSTRUCTIONS

    N O T E – D O N O T P L U G T H I S K I T I N T O A M A I N S C O N D I T I O N E R O R S U R G E
    P R O T E C T I O N E T C O R T H E P E R F O R M A N C E M A Y B E S E V E R E LY D E G R A D E D - N O
    DA M A G E T O T H E K I T W I L L R E S U L T.

    I have VDR's and clip on ferrites in my system mains supply & plaited mains leads because of the RF. when I bought the kit years ago I only remember a warning re Mains Conditioners, I did not consider VDR's as mains conditioners that I believed to be Isotec & Russ Andrews territory. neither as surge protectors since they would not stop a lightening strike only some mains noise.

    I connected an extension lead on a socket in the hall the speed problem was not apparent; This is not convenient of course.

    Any suggestions

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    AT450E, Glasgow, United Kingdom
    Posts
    275
    Rep Power
    74132

    Default

    For anyone whos interested, the original Mk6 OL board I have DOES NOT work at all with the Maplin 12V PSU.
    It runs way too fast and turning the 33.3rpm pot down as far as it goes just results in it clicking past it's lowest
    setting, and the motor doesn't slow down enough.

    Not a surprise really, given I only got it working for the last few years with one of those selectable voltage PSUs
    and even then I had it running on 4.5V!


    Dont think I'll be spending any more dosh on this piece of kit. In an ideal world I'd have the Rega 24V Motor kit
    with one of the speed control boxes I mentioned earlier, the Pro-Ject or the Music Hall. Need to start saving for
    one of 'em, though. I'll send an email to that German fella that made a DIY speed control for the 24V motor that
    was posted on Michael Lims website and see what info he will part with.


    James H
    Last edited by james73; 5th October 2013 at 21:46.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Lancashire.
    Posts
    4,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    324039

    Default

    I think your Maxon motor is being run at quite a slow speed in this application and being a dc motor it will speed up slightly when it gets warm. There is no compensation built in to any of the OL controllers that I've seen despite what they say. My own control board senses current changes in the armature and makes the alteration necessary to keep the speed constant. Also I'm driving an oversize outer rim with a small pulley which gets the motor running faster and therefore warms up faster. The platter is also quite heavy too at around 7kg which helps mask speed fluctuations. Even this is not perfect and more recently I've been trying an uncompensated but heavily regulated power supply with the final speed set after half an hour of running. This seems to work well for me as I tend to run the deck for quarter of an hour before a listening session anyway. The next stage is to try and implement some sort of tacho but my limited electronics knowledge is slowing things down lol.
    I believe the 24 volt Rega motor is an ac unit so as long as the ac frequency is stable the speed will be rock steady irrespective of anything else as long as it has the torque to cope with the load. Those after market control boxes must vary the frequency of the supply to effect a change of speed.
    Si.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    AT450E, Glasgow, United Kingdom
    Posts
    275
    Rep Power
    74132

    Default

    Some further observations

    The unit has been running pretty well for the last few weeks. But yes, some small adjustments
    are required now and then - not every night, just some. There's no rhyme or reason to
    any of it
    that I've been able to figure out and that's the frustrating part. Some nights
    I switch it on and it runs fine for 5 hours. Some nights it starts off too slow, so I need
    to speed it up a wee bit, only for it to then run too fast a few hours later.

    Chops54 - it's a Premotec motor I'm running, not a Maxon. I'm not even sure if the "DC100"
    motor Origin Live provided is actually a genuine Maxon. It has no markings at all on the body.



    However...

    Look what I managed to get my grubby mitts on. It's the first edition of the Pro-Ject
    Speed Box SE
    !

    So j7 - I'll be buying one of the Rega 24V Motor Kits from you. Likely to be just after
    Christmas. This will let me use the Rega motor with a precise speed adjustment PSU.




    BTW - what size of allen key removes the Rega lift platform on the lift mechanism? I
    cant get the grub screw removed with the one or two keys I have. I need to repair/replace
    my RB250 lift mechanism as it doesn't lift the arm high enough off the final third of so of
    an LP side, and is simply dropping the arm down quite quickly. I dont know if it needs more
    grease(?) or the lift lever is gubbed. I still have my RB300 so I was going to swap 'em over
    in the first instance.


    James H
    Last edited by james73; 19th October 2013 at 22:54.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Lancashire.
    Posts
    4,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    324039

    Default

    If it's a Premotech it's not a DC100. That moniker belongs to the smaller Maxon motor. I quite like the Premotech motors but the original OL motor is a bit weedy tbh. Premotech's minimum order was 500 units last time I spoke to them so maybe that's the reason we all buy from Maxon as they're happy to supply single units.
    Si.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    scotland, , United Kingdom
    Posts
    5,809
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    351395

    Default

    its a 1.27mm allan key for the rega cue platform adjustment

    and i have brand new full rega arm cue ass assemblies at only 20
    www.audioorigami.co.uk

    And visit my face book page--- check out Audio Origami

    http://www.facebook.com/AudioOrigamiTonearms

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    AT450E, Glasgow, United Kingdom
    Posts
    275
    Rep Power
    74132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chops54 View Post
    If it's a Premotech it's not a DC100. That moniker belongs to the smaller Maxon motor.
    I know this. The 'DC100' motor I have has no markings on it at all, so we can only speculate
    as to its true origins. A German fella on pinkfishmedia had a Maxon 226774 motor (rumoured
    to have once been the OL 'DC200'...) which he was going to sell to me before I decided against
    it, and it has numerous text markings on it. Just like, in fact, the Maxon motors displayed on
    their own website.

    The OL 'DC100' and 'DC200' motors that they now provide have no markings on their bodies.....


    The 'DC100' I have has functioned poorly in recent months, that's why I took a fly punt on
    digging out the old Premotec motor OL sent me over a decade ago and that's been lying in a
    box since 2007. I just wish I'd done this sooner now but I kinda forgot all about it to be honest.

    And to get specific, it's a Premotec 9904 18105. I know this cos all this info is displayed
    on the motors body! It has outperformed the so-called 'DC100' and the only very slight issue
    I can nitpick with it is this - it gives off a smooth hissing sound as it turns. This is only audible
    when no music is playing.

    Picture of them here: http://www.diyhifisupply.com/files/p...s/_DSC2057.JPG


    James H

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts