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Thread: LP12 TLC

  1. #21
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    its your old motor is the problem with slow start ups

    the herc likes the new type motor ...but still take s a feckon long time to start up..about 9 secs on the many units i fit


    thats why i love the valhalla
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  2. #22
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    Yeah I'm nor worried.

    Last night I finished the set-up and got the arm and cart done.

    Christ on a bike it sounds lovely now!!

  3. #23
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    Do the modern generation of LP12's require synthetic oil?

    Say qube, welcome to the forum. Congrats on taking the steps you have with your record player. Similarly, I got mine in 92 or 93, and only set to reworking it in the last few years.

    A few tips, if I may... Don't fear the fettle. As an alternative to a fancy jig, i propped my deck up with 2 large coffee cans. I recommend Maxwell House, but not decaf. Decaf makes the deck sound thin and leaves you feeling un invigoratved.

    I had an adikt-- I suspect you can do better for your money. I recommend consulting j7 and Prof (Paul) and maybe others on the forum for ideas. They have command of this info at their finger tips.

    En route to the present imcarnation of my deck, I installed a Cetech subchassis and arm board. It was a big improvement over stock. I replaced it with the Sole subchassis, which is much better again. I recommend looking towards these upgrades.

    An inexpensive addition for now, since youve just laid out some cash, you might look at Sole man, John R.'s plattamat. Replaces the fuzzy black rag atop your platter.

  4. #24
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    Hi, I bought mine as a refurbished unit, when I took it to bits I found that it was made in 1989.

    I've no fettle fear, rebuilt Chevy V8's so a turntable isn't a worry.

    The problem with carts is auditing them, the Adikt seemed to get favourable reviews and seemed a logical upgrade from the K18mk2. TBH I'm a bit out of touch now with what's good, the AT-OC9ML/II gets a lot of votes on-line.

    My Marantz PM17 amp will cope with MM as well as MC carts, it's not a bad amp TBH

    Didn't see the need for a jig I have a Target stand for my hi-fi, just used a home made custom shelf with the centre cut-out to set the spring-height and level. Not a complicated task.

    I'm running a Plattermat already, not had much time to listen to the deck as I'm stuck redecorating two bedrooms, won't have much time to play the deck until complete.

    I'd like to fit a Trampolin 2 mainly because the stock board is horrid. With a new cart too then I'm happy it's suitably fettled to last me as is.

  5. #25
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    Hi qube,

    Excellent. Your solution for a jig is much better than mine. I'd thought about making such a cut-out shelf after I nearly bumped my deck off the coffee cans last time. That gave me quite a shock. Probably I didn't have enough caffeine in my system to help with fine motor coordination.

    I rather liked the Adikt when I had it. It was an upgrade of my K9 that was discontinued. The girl friend was doing me a favour of dusting, and accidentally pulled the cantilever out of that one.

    Then I wrecked my own Adikt when I was fiddling with my tone arm, so Prof gave me some great advice about what I might do for an upgrade.

    I'm delighted to hear how you're enjoying the fruits of your labour with the old "fruitbox." I'll never sell mine, but I might upgrade it some more.

  6. #26
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    I'm not a upgrade hunter, this is the first time I've done anything with my deck since I bought it. TBH most of the music I 'listen' to is myself bashing away at the piano

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by qube View Post
    I'd like to fit a Trampolin 2 mainly because the stock board is horrid. With a new cart too then I'm happy it's suitably fettled to last me as is.
    Only my personal opinion, but I had the Trampolin, albeit in Mk 1 guise, and it sounded no better than the stock board in my set up. I subsequeuntly left the Trampolin board in place and removed the spongy feet (which were the cause of the problem!) and everything sounded much better..... Go figure.

    Paul's suggestion of the "freebie" by removing the bottom board completely (and replacing the feet) is probably the best idea of all, so long as you bear in mind the consequences of ever sticking your fingers in there......

    I still have the Trampolin feet somewhere, so if you want them you can cut a bottom cover from whatever material you prefer and fit the feet just to see what you think?? You are welcome to give it a try.

    G.
    Last edited by WullieD20; 16th April 2015 at 06:38.
    You can only be young once, but you can be immature for ever.....

  8. #28
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    The stock feet wouldn't sit flat (not that they do now) without the board in place.

    I could just cut a piece of steel the same gauge as the hardboard, have it powdercoated, ad your feet and make my own trampolin.

    TBH I'm not expecting it to make a diff to the sound, the design is to improve things when the deck is sat on furniture rather than a specific hi-hi stand. It just bothers me that the stock base is such a poor piece of 'engineering'

    A new cart is next on the shopping list as the k18 I've got is over 20 years old

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by qube View Post
    The stock feet wouldn't sit flat (not that they do now) without the board in place.
    If all four feet are not sitting the TT flat and square they will need to be shimmed. Is the fish box twisted, or will a shim here and there resolve the issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by qube View Post
    I could just cut a piece of steel the same gauge as the hardboard, have it powdercoated, ad your feet and make my own trampolin.
    You certainly could. But it may still require to be shimmed if all four feet are not soundly grounded.

    Quote Originally Posted by qube View Post
    It just bothers me that the stock base is such a poor piece of 'engineering'
    I wouldn't consider a piece of hardboard as 'engineering', especially if you consider the context of the LP12 in the early seventies...... "The best TT you could buy".
    I can't remember what the trampolin base was made from, but it wasn't hardboard! If you want to try the feet, send me a PM.
    You can only be young once, but you can be immature for ever.....

  10. #30
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    The hardboard is the same thickness as the lip on the plinth, so when you screw the little rubber feet in it holds it in place and they sit flat.

    If you removed the bottom then you'd need to pack it out to ensure they stay flat, like what this person did here:



    On my deck the base is slightly thinner than it should be so the feet don't sit quite flat. But the hardboard and the little Maplin-esque rubber feet are all just a bit crapply made. There's no consideration gone into how they will operate, with the unequal weight that rests on them and their vague structural properties then even on a perfectly level surface you couldn't guarantee that your deck will sit flat without rocking.

    But TBH having a nice deck with the bottom removed, cables hanging and the feet packed out is just a bodge, even if it improved the sound I wouldn't be interested in doing it.

  11. #31
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    IMO the plinth needs coupling to the shelf it sits on so that any noise or energy present in the top plate and plinth has somewhere else to go rather than excite the suspension.
    Si.

  12. #32
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    The corner bolt mod is not really needed if the top plate is fitted correctly, but I agree this takes time to master.

    With respect to support after many trail to my ears it is far better to leave the base plate off as you have done, but to fit three adjustable feet intended for laboratory equipment.

  13. #33
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    I was referring to the feet not the top plate shenanigans.

  14. #34
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    Hi Qube I also have the Herc (when my Valhalla died I just got a Herc 'cos I detest the 45 pulley - always fear I'll break the motor). Did you immediately put the Herc in a Mose or did you live with it in the deck for a while? I am wondering how much improvement it brings.

    Another issue is convenience; right now I unplug the deck from mains and it's annoying.

    I notice the Mose is more than just a box, there a bit of electronics there before the Herc board. I wonder if any improvements are from the distance the Herc is from the cartridge, the electronics at the back of the Mose, or both.

    Thanks

  15. #35
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    Hi,

    I swapped the Val for the Herc and ran it inside the plinth. It sounded the same as the Valhalla to my ears, if there was a difference it was too subtle to matter.

    Installing the Mose did make an improvement for certain. Not a fan of hi-fi clichés but it did seem to improve detail and reduce the noise floor (I suspect these are due to moving the supply away from the cart).

    One thing I've never liked about the 'in-the-box' power supplies is that they're always switched on using power whether you're running the deck or not, the boards also get very hot and slowly burns the PCB causing dry solder joints. It's a crappy design IMO as it's a faff to unplug it so you don't bother. With the Mose there's a easy to reach power button on the back that cuts the mains and any fire risk with it (plus will save a few pence on the leccy bill).

    I would suspect that you would get the same improvements installing a Valhalla inside the Mose also, but I quite like the occasional 45-speed record so having the option without the faff is great. Finally I've noticed that if you switch the power on and the Herc is therefore cold the platter takes a bit more of an effort to get going, doesn't last long.

    Finally the electronics inside the Mose is a mains filter, it's there to ensure that what's going into your power supply is as clean as possible (without resorting to a UPS).

    It's all very well made, dead easy to install and IMO worth every penny.

    HTH

    Matthew

  16. #36
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    Thanks for your prompt reply mate!
    I will probably switch it off at the back when not using, and when on it will probably get warm enough for my cat to sit on. Surely the hairs that will get in through the Mose grills will do wonders to the sound.

    I can at least be thankful that I can count on one hand the times when the pet decided to go all DJ Logic on the LP12, mistaking it for an SL-1200!

  17. #37
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    If it held there are no vents on the Mose

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