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Thread: Badge of honour? Banned from Linn forums!!

  1. #21
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    No need for fancy names, Fannies will be fine.

    As for Linn Fannies hoping for Ivor to bring out the Kretin Brag, a new oneupmanship enhancer. But are thes guys any worse than the Naimies, with their ever vanishing noise floor?

  2. #22

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    Do Linn still seriously think they're making the very best Hifi there is? I have an old friend and ex colleague who tells me that the amps are sort of ok in the company of exalted US alternatives, but he dislikes the speakers - and this from a man who once had a truly superb sounding late 70's era Isobarik active system fed by period Naim bolt-up gear - still one of the two best active Brik systems I ever heard out of dozens... Whatever happened to Julian's ears when the CB Naims came out and Ivors when the Ittok ruined the LP12's bass for a decade or so (setup be damned, this was fundamental), the brands went from Hifi grade to 'PA' overnight and us young-uns didn't have the balls to tell them and walk away
    Turntable bodger, NVA builder and NVA's loan scheme administrator

  3. #23
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    Unfortunately for many of us Dave, Linn has it's own band of fanatical devotees and of which their dealers exploit to full advantage of fleecing them.

    I've spent an enjoyable (not) few hours fighting with (and improving) an early 1980's plinth, the quality of which is shocking - rear top plate support strip and block loose! The state of service by a Linn authorised dealer - bent motor mounting "wings", not a locking nut in sight, rattling top plate (not helped by the loose top plate supports), mains cable not secured properly ( dangerous) and as for arm cable dressing, well it wasn't even clamped in the "P"clip.

    Shoddy manufacture and shoddy servicing - no wonder they've had their own brand of complainants over the years. But I bet everything sounded fine when listening by their silly tune dem! 10 seconds here, ten seconds there etc

    No wonder many of my customers used to track skip until they had a Sole installed.
    Last edited by John R; 26th March 2016 at 22:17.

  4. #24

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    I'd like us to meet up one day, but unless I can persuade my wife to let us move 'back to my spiritual home,' that's impossible for now.


    I was trained by Jimmy Hughes in the art of LP12 set-up (do as I say, not as I do), who himself was trained by Julian Vereker, the man who told Linn how to do it in the late 70's... The top plate needs careful bending so when it's pulled down onto the plinth blocks, which should be screwed into place, possible with care and a good drill, it pulls down flat. As for the Pee-clip. The number of badly clamped cables I saw in my time, crushing one of the pair and the other floating.. As I couldn't drill to save my life back then, I used to use thick beads of wood glue to try to hold the battens and blocks in place and this worked fairly well at the time.


    I was told last week that my once beloved Linn set-up jig finally met the dump late last year when the shop I worked at changed hands. I need the bloody thing now and should have claimed it or bought it a few years ago when my turntable interest took off again
    Turntable bodger, NVA builder and NVA's loan scheme administrator

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    Julian Vereker, the man who told Linn how to do it in the late 70's...
    I'd be interested to hear why? Why would the creator of Naim Audio be teaching Linn how to assemble their own product, especially as it had been in production for many years by this time?
    You can only be young once, but you can be immature for ever.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by WullieD20 View Post
    Why would the creator of Naim Audio be teaching Linn how to assemble their own product, especially as it had been in production for many years by this time?
    Coz they fell out with Hamish and he never told them how to build it properly. Might as well let Jools have a go

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Professor View Post
    Coz they fell out with Hamish and he never told them how to build it properly. Might as well let Jools have a go
    They needed this when the LP12 had been in production for a decade already? Sounds bizarre....
    Last edited by WullieD20; 28th March 2016 at 19:14.
    You can only be young once, but you can be immature for ever.....

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WullieD20 View Post
    They needed this when the LP12 had been in production for a decade already? Sounds bizarre....
    There are some who believe setting up an LP has less to do with engineering and more to do with the black arts. Me I think you need to fiddle so much to get it to bounce just right is a result of the compromised design and materials used. The reason it doesn't fit is probably down to tooling differences between the plinth maker and the die used to cut the top plate. Over the years guru's have come and gone and given reasons for the miss fitting top plate, the tiny little woods crews used to hold the arm board on, the P clip and lack of any other cable management on a bouncing deck. it was a compromise from the start and I bet in 1969 it probably cost a fiver to make, by the 80’s it was 50 tops ex factory. It is what it is.
    Last edited by The Professor; 28th March 2016 at 19:57.

  9. #29

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    Linn began selling the LP12 as 'theirs' in 1973 and JV got dealers' set-up act together in '77 or so. The setting up of these things for use, not the manufacturing of them, was arbitrary and as much guesswork as anything else - cable dressing, belt adjustments, centring the suspension and getting a proper bounce, getting things firmly tight and so on being all over the shop as I recall. No two LP12's were the same back then and it wasn't until the early 90's that things became properly consistent. JV to his credit, developed the technique and tips for getting the thing to work properly and consistently as much as the plinths would allow - it was plinth variability that caused havoc with non-parallel bolts for the springs to hang on for example and I'm sure John would confirm I'm not making all this up...


    [edit] - It was never a black art, just common sense plus a taught basic technique to setter-uppers with no mechanical engineering sensibilities...


    Today, with the Tiger paw and then Tangerine Audio top plates, and a small range of third party as well as three official Linn sub-chassis available, I think I can say that not one part of the thing is exactly the same as it was in 1973, let alone the Ariston RD11 original that Ivor's fathers firm first made for a few years. Linn used to work on ten times mark-up from factory cost to rrp inc. VAT and to keep dealer margins very high indeed as well as make plenty for themselves to keep the product going, the retail price is way more than I think it should be in my opinion.
    Last edited by DSJR; 28th March 2016 at 20:16.
    Turntable bodger, NVA builder and NVA's loan scheme administrator

  10. #30
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    Great explanation David, thanks.

    I am still in possession of an advert from Jan 1978, when you could buy the LP12 in chassis form for 150, or complete with plinth and lid for 185.... LOL.

    G.
    You can only be young once, but you can be immature for ever.....

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    It was never a black art, just common sense plus a taught basic technique to setter-uppers with no mechanical engineering sensibilities...

    Quite Dave, but it has evolved into a Black Art, with the best exponents being talked about in hushed tones, usually their own, as you said its common sense. Still if it had been designed correctly,

    FWIW Ivors father's firm only made some of the bits of the RD11 for Hamish Robertson, Ariston didn't belong to the Tiefenbruns, in late 72/early 73 the LP 12 appeared, near as dammit identical to the RD11, meanwhile Hamish sits in a workshop waiting on parts from Castle Engineering that never show, allegedly.

  12. #32
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    You get it all set up correctly and then can't dance to anything because you would make it jump lol. 'Everyone tip-toe, I'm playing a record.'

  13. #33
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    Now here's a right bunch of sado's and more than a few with more faces than the town hall clock. I'd not trust one of them to know what a good system sounds like.

    The positively hate me

    The forum below was created by a few idiots who used to frequent the Linn forums but were cleared out by Linn..

    The main protagonist went by the username Mudcrutch on the Linn forum but who morphed into "carlton the doorman" and latterly as "jazz club" on hifikabin. Allegedly his real Christian name is Stuart. He also appears on pfm as Barry Williams so he appears to be a right fruitcake and textbook PS arse licker.

    http://hifikabin.me.uk/viewforum.php...d1b189e9b2a918
    Last edited by John R; 29th March 2016 at 12:44.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Professor View Post
    Quite Dave, but it has evolved into a Black Art, with the best exponents being talked about in hushed tones, usually their own, as you said its common sense.

    You mean Pete Swain? He's ok and I've updated and re-set decks he did originally when I was at the long deceased Listen Inn, but he must never EVER think he's the only one who can do it. He was fastidious in getting armboards straight and true and a good visual look as well as a good 'do' underneath, whereas Jimmy H would get an amazing sounding deck at the top of it's potential with armboard all over the place and deck not always level. I rather preferred Jimmy's approach as the music counted more with him than customer adulation...


    Linn do seem to have their fair share of blind adherents still, sadly. So much really good stuff out there and some of it is a small fraction of the price too
    Turntable bodger, NVA builder and NVA's loan scheme administrator

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    Quote Originally Posted by John R View Post
    Now here's a right bunch of sado's and more than a few with more fees than the town hall clock.
    Surely the phrase is more faces than the town hall clock.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIU View Post
    Surely the phrase is more faces than the town hall clock.
    Indeed Gary! I'd only just got up but still no excuse for that oversight - corrected now with some additional info.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    I'd like us to meet up one day, but unless I can persuade my wife to let us move 'back to my spiritual home,' that's impossible for now.

    Sure I'd like to do that one day Dave, I'm sure something can be arranged - we'd have loads to discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    Linn began selling the LP12 as 'theirs' in 1973 and JV got dealers' set-up act together in '77 or so. The setting up of these things for use, not the manufacturing of them, was arbitrary and as much guesswork as anything else - cable dressing, belt adjustments, centring the suspension and getting a proper bounce, getting things firmly tight and so on being all over the shop as I recall. No two LP12's were the same back then and it wasn't until the early 90's that things became properly consistent. JV to his credit, developed the technique and tips for getting the thing to work properly and consistently as much as the plinths would allow - it was plinth variability that caused havoc with non-parallel bolts for the springs to hang on for example and I'm sure John would confirm I'm not making all this up...


    [edit] - It was never a black art, just common sense plus a taught basic technique to setter-uppers with no mechanical engineering sensibilities...


    Today, with the Tiger paw and then Tangerine Audio top plates, and a small range of third party as well as three official Linn sub-chassis available, I think I can say that not one part of the thing is exactly the same as it was in 1973, let alone the Ariston RD11 original that Ivor's fathers firm first made for a few years. Linn used to work on ten times mark-up from factory cost to rrp inc. VAT and to keep dealer margins very high indeed as well as make plenty for themselves to keep the product going, the retail price is way more than I think it should be in my opinion.

    The big issue I have is all the bullshit/ myth on how well engineered it is and how it just needs careful setting up. Well in the early 80's its quality was extremely variable, ranging from quite good to nothing but crock of shit.

    I think what has resulted in the position where I cannot view or post on their forum (although it does not show to others that I have been banned) was my question something along the lines of.... " Well if 'Tune-dem' is so bloody good in providing subjective assessment of how well an LP12 performs based on its set up, why the need for all the Linn upgrades?"

    Ouch, that must have hurt somebodies feelings?

    Tune dem = 10 to 30 second snippets of a piece of music. I my opinion this simply serves to cover up inadequacies in the TT's performance.
    Last edited by John R; 29th March 2016 at 13:02.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIU View Post
    You get it all set up correctly and then can't dance to anything because you would make it jump lol. 'Everyone tip-toe, I'm playing a record.'
    Tis borrux Gary and more to do with where you have the LP12 located. If it's sat on an immovable, solid base or wall mounted you could smack it with a 2ib hammer and wouldn't even hear the knock through the speakers...
    You can only be young once, but you can be immature for ever.....

  19. #39

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    That must be apocryphal.

    springs in compression surely dance if the listener as got a cough .

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Quinn View Post
    That must be apocryphal.

    springs in compression surely dance if the listener as got a cough .
    Will you stop using long words I have to look up!

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