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Thread: D.S.O.M.

  1. #1
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    Default D.S.O.M.

    listening to 'Dark Side' from start to finish for the first time in years on me latest 'speakers (Spendor S8s ) and i'm enjoying every minute ( dare i say it's not the best recorded album in the world ?) but musically it is head and shoulders above the crap that passes for music these days

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    But still no-where as good as Atom Heart Mother or Meddle?
    20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please God, don't take Kevin Bacon

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    each to his own i suppose !!

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    AHM is an awful record.

    ... but I love it!
    Last edited by TIU; 26th March 2016 at 23:36.

  5. #5

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    I've replied to this elsewhere, but basically, you need HUGE 70's speakers like JBL L200's or the likes of the larger IMF TL's to really 'feel' this record properly (I'm leaving vintage Tannoys out 'cos they're just too coloured in stock form - for me anyway). We had a Dolby A 15IPS master-copy to dem with and the heat-beats would rattle the windows and almost make you feel seasick... No lack of clarity in the treble either, the clock bells and chimes were very realistic - speaking as a lover of old farmhouse long case clocks that 'TING' really loudly when striking the hour...
    Turntable bodger, freelance NVA builder, 'Dad-Taxi...'

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    I've replied to this elsewhere, but basically, you need HUGE 70's speakers like JBL L200's or the likes of the larger IMF TL's to really 'feel' this record properly
    ...or a sub. I've yet to play DSOTM through my revised system.

  7. #7

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    TWO subs might do it
    Turntable bodger, freelance NVA builder, 'Dad-Taxi...'

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    Never considered DSOTM to be poorly recorded, doesn't sound rolled off, and the heartbeats are reported to be centred around 30Hz and go as low be around 25Hz whats the -3dB point of your speakers?

    Gary try it with the sub sharpish, its a different track, the heartbeat has a hard element that moves your chest, if you listen on speakerettes without a sub you'll miss that.

    ps I don't need or use a sub, but I'm advocating their use, and to be honest they can and should be used with more than standmounts, loads of the usually narrow floor standers have little below 35Hz and can also benefit from a good sub. They are a good compromise for domestic harmony, and can be turned off late at night should you have sensitive neighbours

  9. #9

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    The big IMF's had 'pressure waves' at 17Hz I remember, although there was no 'tone' as such until 25hz or so I think.


    An audio/video recording engineer I knew stood by his experiences that two subs were necessary in a stereo system, even when rolled out very low (most apparently work up into the mid bass region which they shouldn't, even when set to low roll off). He told me that recording in stereo, some of the venue ambience is recorded in stereo at low frequencies (despite science saying otherwise) and using just one sub on playback seems to cancel some of this information,
    Turntable bodger, freelance NVA builder, 'Dad-Taxi...'

  10. #10

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    DSOM is one of the better recorded albums in my view , of the 1500 or so individual albums I own , I would put it in the top 20% .

    my modified jpw's with 8 inch drivers are all I need vis--vis bass .

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    You hear the album on larger speakers and quickly realise 8 inches isn't enough. And live, well that's a different matter.

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    ^^^

    4 x 12" bass drivers do pretty well....
    You can only be young once, but you can be immature for ever.....

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    I'll step in here, does DSOM sound great with 8" speakers? Yes

    Does it sound better with bigger speakers? Oh yes

    Can you enjoy the record via 8" speakers? Yes without a shadow of a doubt.

    Are you hearing it to it's full capacity, as the artist intended? No never in a million.....

    But I reckon Daniel knows this, and his answer is more along the lines of, as a compromise I'm content with the sound i get from 8" and thats fine, at least it's not a tidy speakerette
    Last edited by The Professor; 29th March 2016 at 18:42.

  14. #14

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    better is subjective .

    In my room . I would challenge anybody to make it sound better than it does .

    Better per se I am not interested in as I don't live any where else.

    I moved from a v large room [8meters x 18 meters] to a room that is 5x5 meters with a bay window , multi driver speakers in latter room had to go. Does it sound better now or then . neither they both sounded equally good in the space.
    Last edited by Daniel Quinn; 30th March 2016 at 12:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Quinn View Post
    better is subjective .

    In my room . I would challenge anybody to make it sound better than it does . Better per se I am not interested in as I don't live any where else.
    It would sound better with more bottom end, I'm not talking about boy racer bass here, it underpins the rest, everything is more realistic, try and borrow a decent sized sub, min 10", 12 would be better, when done correctly the results will surprise.

    Am I correct in thinking you have tweaked your speakers? If so what have you done and why? Genuinely curious.

  16. #16

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    I am totally against subs , they complicate the audio chain , introduce phase issues and I don't see much music on vinyl below 35hz

    I have been building speakers for five years .

    My current speakers are JPW AP2 carcass .
    The mods are as follows –
    The bass driver has been replaced with a NVA cube bass driver with a doped cone. There is no crossover on the bass driver . The speaker cable is hired wired direct to the bass driver .
    The treble is also hard wired to the speaker cable but there is a resistor and capacitor in circuit.
    There is no wadding in the speakers
    The speakers have steel plate glued to the inside to add mass
    The speaker cables are hard wired to the amplifier pcb .
    Last edited by Daniel Quinn; 30th March 2016 at 14:11.

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    How did you arrive at the crossover values etc?

    So subs don't work? Ever tried a decent one?

  18. #18

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    there is no crossover on the bass driver .

    for the treble by ear . The capacitor is only there to protect the treble from the "energy of a full frequency signal , an online calculator suggests figures between 3uf and 6uf giving the working frequency of the tweeter ,I bought cheap ones between those value and above and below and tried them , ultimately deciding on 3.6 uf clarifty cap 1% matched . I am unable to say if the extra 10 for 1% matching was beneficial .

    The same with the resistor , wire wound resistors are cheap , a bought a shit load and tried them . I think it is 12 ohms .

    ultimately I going to put tweeters in that can dispense with the resistor .

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Quinn View Post
    there is no crossover on the bass driver .

    for the treble by ear . The capacitor is only there to protect the treble from the "energy of a full frequency signal , an online calculator suggests figures between 3uf and 6uf giving the working frequency of the tweeter ,I bought cheap ones between those value and above and below and tried them , ultimately deciding on 3.6 uf clarifty cap 1% matched . I am unable to say if the extra 10 for 1% matching was beneficial .

    The same with the resistor , wire wound resistors are cheap , a bought a shit load and tried them . I think it is 12 ohms .

    ultimately I going to put tweeters in that can dispense with the resistor .
    Maybe you should look at a book that tells you what to do.

    Your ears, brain, room etc are inaccurate, is this a good basis for using listening only (without a known reference)?

    I was going to ask why you want no crossover, then I realised, it's the RD effect innit, FWIW it's not the crossover that's the problem, it's manufacturers using poor quality, from drivers to caps to inductors, I've seen many commercial speakers costing thousands using ferrite cored inductors.

    Da capo make speakers like yours, sound shouty to me, honky midrange if you like, may be bass driver beaming, I dunno.

    I don't suppose 1% tolerance is going to make a difference, Richards hand doping of the drivers isn't going to be this close anyway, and the rest of the 'design' is less of a design and more of an ethos. Like making your car go faster by removing seats, carpet, soundproofing, etc.

    Still if you are happy...

    Ps when did the amp builder extraordinaire become the speaker bodgers guru extrodinaire.

  20. #20

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    Unsure as to why you are personalising the issue .

    Your post is patronising. You are suggesting you know better than me but never having heard them. To suggest a book should trump my empirical experience is absurd . My speakers are for me no one else. You have reminded me of Dave Brailsford explanation on why British Cycling was so successful, he said it was because they do not employ cut and paste thinkers, people who have simply learnt and employ the orthodoxy, we employ first principle thinkers.

    A number of speakers have a directly coupled bass drivers including Epos ES11.

    As for the RD effect , Again patronising . As I tell my children daily , I am the cleverest person I know and I make up my own mind . As it happens in 2009 I was trying to build a crossover having read all there was to read when I came across H/S. I was not a member of any forum , did not know one single other person interested in hifi [ I still do not] my first and only post [ for a while ] was a question about crossovers . RD suggested ditching the x-over , doping and wiring the bass drivers in parallel . I tried it and I was astonished as to how it sounded. It was emotive , enjoyable and like music , not hifi.

    I am amused that most of the people who disparage the idea have actually never listened to NVA cubes or tried the docs mods .

    Here is what I know . I tried they worked for me .

    Many people have tried then and have agreed.

    Many people have ditched much more expensive speakers for NVA cubes .

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