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Thread: Baseboard in machined alu for TA Stiletto...WoW

  1. #21
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    Please excuse my ignorance, I'm no engineer, but why do you need a base plate? I've removed mine from my PT too and the plinth now sits on 4 oak cones, one on each of the four corners of the plinth. This sits on an bamboo chopping board which rests on four sorbothane feet.

  2. #22
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    Becouse it is part 2 of the plinth Stiletto that is machined in one piece incl the topplate se attached 1 and get the plinth their performance and as the Trampolin 1 and 2 get the feets in same baseplate se attched link 2. This is the Karmen topplate but itīs like this and the same good machined piece of good engineer , donīt get a pic on it yet.

    https://www.google.se/search?q=stile...D1EsSIrd-rATM:

    https://www.google.se/search?q=stile...D1EsSIrd-rATM:

    /L
    Tangerine Audio Stiletto, Plateau, Skorpion, SME V ( D ), Dynavector DRT XV 1S, Chord Signature Tuned Aray, Linn Cirkus, Linn Radikal Klimax, Tranquility
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  3. #23
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    Sorry SME V, that does not really answer my question. You state previously you will not use their feet but spikes, so why not just put the spikes at the four corners of the plinth, and not have a base board. Maybe I am missing something.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve195527 View Post
    how are you relating mass to inductance? if what you are saying is correct, most engines should shake themselves to pieces as the energy passed on mechanically has nowhere to go (noise and heat gets rid of a lot I know) and remains in the system, eventually building in amplitude to a destructive level
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_analogy
    .
    Not sure where the engine comes in? But a vibrating thing will have problems if the vibrational energy is not damped in some way. Problems will include significant wear, loud noises and huge amounts of heat.
    cheers.....Bryan

    http://qualia.webs.com/

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by cat's squirrel View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_analogy
    .
    Not sure where the engine comes in? But a vibrating thing will have problems if the vibrational energy is not damped in some way. Problems will include significant wear, loud noises and huge amounts of heat.
    problem with wiki is that anybody can add info
    I brought the engine in as an example of something providing continuous vibrations that is controlled by damping and by use of mass in some instances(same engine used in various cars are easier to quieten in an heavier more rigid shell),you stated that no matter the mass it would eventually start vibrating wiith the same amplitude as with no or little mass if your talking about months maybe a large mass would eventually start to vibrate with amplitudes comparable to no or little mass,in the real world that doesn't happen

  6. #26
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    Your question was : but why do you need a base plate?
    And my answer was : Becouse it is part 2 of the plinth Stiletto
    My English is not good but what i can see this was a good answer on the question.

    I stated that yes but I stated also this: But of course il will test both of them.

    As you see on the pics its not corner braces on this type of plinth as there is on the original Linn plinth - 86 and forward so i can not drill or put them there on this plinth you have the usual edge as the orginal plinth has and there are threads M3 in the corners on this and what i know so has i ever seen a spike that have M3 threads on them and a chans to fit home made corner for this four corners to attach spikes and feets and fits them with three M 3 and then attach a spike or a feet on this corners. This maybe is a soloution, but not my cup of tea on a plinth/system that cost a fortune.

    This is my 11 th Linn Lp 12 (ok nearly an Lp 12 ) and 8 of them had the std rubberfeet/std baseboard and 1 without an -74 was without, 1 had the Trampolin 2 but all of them had std plinths, but the Stiletto is an 2 way system plinth so itīs not the same.
    I know what you meen and think that it sounds good without the baseboard, itīs your opinion and my opinion is that they sounds really good with the rubberfeets and std baseboard.

    /L
    Tangerine Audio Stiletto, Plateau, Skorpion, SME V ( D ), Dynavector DRT XV 1S, Chord Signature Tuned Aray, Linn Cirkus, Linn Radikal Klimax, Tranquility
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve195527 View Post
    problem with wiki is that anybody can add info
    I particularly like this bit from Wiki:

    "The impedance analogy is sometimes called the Maxwell analogy[29] after James Clerk Maxwell (1831–1879) who used mechanical analogies to explain his ideas of electromagnetic fields.[30] However, the term impedance was not coined until 1886 (by Oliver Heaviside),"

    This was thought up over 100 years ago, and is still being denied?

    I brought the engine in as an example of something providing continuous vibrations that is controlled by damping and by use of mass in some instances (same engine used in various cars are easier to quieten in a heavier more rigid shell), You stated that no matter the mass, it would eventually start vibrating with the same amplitude as with no or little mass if you're talking about months, maybe, a large mass would eventually start to vibrate with amplitudes comparable to no or little mass; in the real world that doesn't happen.
    Didn't say that Steve, you mustn't make things up. I said "As the mass is likely to have very little damping, amplitudes will build quite quickly, and the mass effect will be negated." Not the same thing at all.

    The analogy of a car engine in a car is a complex example, and I'm not sure we have the time or energy to debate it, here.

    For the record, I'm stating that undamped mass is not the answer to energy dissipation, and that mass cannot be thought of as an earth or sink (unless the sink has a plug in the waste hole).
    Last edited by cat's squirrel; 24th March 2017 at 17:43.
    cheers.....Bryan

    http://qualia.webs.com/

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by cat's squirrel View Post
    I particularly like this bit from Wiki:

    "The impedance analogy is sometimes called the Maxwell analogy[29] after James Clerk Maxwell (1831–1879) who used mechanical analogies to explain his ideas of electromagnetic fields.[30] However, the term impedance was not coined until 1886 (by Oliver Heaviside),"

    This was thought up over 100 years ago, and is still being denied?



    Didn't say that Steve, you mustn't make things up. I said "As the mass is likely to have very little damping, amplitudes will build quite quickly, and the mass effect will be negated." Not the same thing at all.

    The analogy of a car engine in a car is a complex example, and I'm not sure we have the time or energy to debate it, here.

    For the record, I'm stating that undamped mass is not the answer to energy dissipation, and that mass cannot be thought of as an earth or sink (unless the sink has a plug in the waste hole).
    what do you mean by mass will be negated? surely that means the mass is totally irrelevant and eventually will just behave as though no mass has been added,maybe the ideal solution would be to tune a mass on some kind "spring" to vibrate in the opposite phase to the vibrations present in the plinth/support,bit like they try to do to stop buildings being affected by earthquakes/winds
    Last edited by steve195527; 24th March 2017 at 18:06.

  9. #29
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    in a structure, such as would be found in a turntable plinth, vibrations in different parts of the audio spectrum can be ameliorated by either stiffness (bass regions) mass (midrange) or treble (damping), although damping affects all regions.
    The regions are neatly defined by the fundamental resonance frequency (Fr) and critical frequency (Fc). Below Fr, stiffness controls, above Fc and damping controls, and between the two, mass is controlling. But Fr and Fc are greatly affected by the thickness of the structure, so a 100mm thick ply plinth will have no affect from mass, as Fr is above Fc in this example. [A 100mm thick ply plinth is very common with idler driven things]. So the effect from mass is negated.

    The idea of a mass damper in buildings is to reduce the sway in event of high winds and earthquake tremours. These are not vibrations as we are discussing here. [Mass dampers usually have a separate damper as well! and the mass helps with inertia].

    The idea of a mass on springs (Linn and bouncy castle come to mind) will often split the resonance peak into two smaller peaks, much like the resonance in a vented/reflex enclosure for bass 'speakers. Although it can reduce amplitude of the resonance peak, it also spreads it out to cover a wide frequency region. Best just to damp it properly.
    Last edited by cat's squirrel; 24th March 2017 at 18:38.
    cheers.....Bryan

    http://qualia.webs.com/

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by cat's squirrel View Post
    in a structure, such as would be found in a turntable plinth, vibrations in different parts of the audio spectrum can be ameliorated by either stiffness (bass regions) mass (midrange) or treble (damping), although damping affects all regions.
    The regions are neatly defined by the fundamental resonance frequency (Fr) and critical frequency (Fc). Below Fr, stiffness controls, above Fc and damping controls, and between the two, mass is controlling. But Fr and Fc are greatly affected by the thickness of the structure, so a 100mm thick ply plinth will have no affect from mass, as Fr is above Fc in this example. [A 100mm thick ply plinth is very common with idler driven things]. So the effect from mass is negated.

    The idea of a mass damper in buildings is to reduce the sway in event of high winds and earthquake tremours. These are not vibrations as we are discussing here. [Mass dampers usually have a separate damper as well! and the mass helps with inertia].

    The idea of a mass on springs (Linn and bouncy castle come to mind) will often split the resonance peak into two smaller peaks, much like the resonance in a vented/reflex enclosure for bass 'speakers. Although it can reduce amplitude of the resonance peak, it also spreads it out to cover a wide frequency region. Best just to damp it properly.
    In any system there are always more than one resonance frequency at varying amplitudes,usually doubling in frequency etc etc etc of the initial resonance peak,but from a conservation of energy point of view if you have a certain amount of energy going into that system it will have less effect if the masses involved are high,but running counter to that those effects will be more difficult to control due to the high masses,bit like the Spencer Hughes using thin walls on his speakers,thin less massive walls were far easier to control to remove colorations caused by cabinet vibrations,seems we are more or less both saying there are more than one to skin a cat,maybe a motional feed back system in the plinth would be the ideal answer,they use such systems in cars now to remove almost all road/engine noise from the cabin,but would a system be quick enough to respond to more varying audible vibrations encountered in music playback

  11. #31
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    any half complex structure will, indeed, have many resonances, even each piece will have many modes, giving rise to many frequencies, although not necessarily harmonically related! The most difficult to deal with are those at low frequencies.

    Active damping is looking attractive for all sorts of things, active cld particularly, and I might dabble myself at some time! using a sheet of piezo plastic as a constraining layer!

    Just to end this discussion (taking up too much of my time, Steve, sorry, enjoyed it) must add that mass doesn't damp, it can merely reduce amplitudes, but isn't that half the battle...
    Last edited by cat's squirrel; 24th March 2017 at 21:18.
    cheers.....Bryan

    http://qualia.webs.com/

  12. #32
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    Because it's part 2 of the Stiletto plinth does not mean anything to me. I can understand how the TA plinth can make a improvement over the original Linn so I will look forward to your findings when you try the Stiletto.

  13. #33
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    As Mark on TA has stated : It has principally been designed with the flagship Stiletto in mind. Just wanted to chare this with them who might just was interrested about it, Do i have to defend the manufacturer of it and my self ?

    Stiletto is the plinth
    Skorpion is the Base plate
    And the combination of them is to get out more performance of each them together.

    I have the Stiletto in seven months now, so itīs tryed yes, and itīs a huge improvement to the original Linn.
    The Skorpion is orderd and i wait for it the nearest week so this i have not tried yet and have waited seven month for this moment to mount them together and of course i let folks forwarded my findings on this if itīs of someones interrest.
    Itīs a fortune in money btw the Tramp 2 and the Skorpion but i donīt want to die curious.

    /L
    Tangerine Audio Stiletto, Plateau, Skorpion, SME V ( D ), Dynavector DRT XV 1S, Chord Signature Tuned Aray, Linn Cirkus, Linn Radikal Klimax, Tranquility
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jy3 View Post
    Please excuse my ignorance, I'm no engineer, but why do you need a base plate? I've removed mine from my PT too and the plinth now sits on 4 oak cones, one on each of the four corners of the plinth. This sits on an bamboo chopping board which rests on four sorbothane feet.
    This was my original question. I never meant it for you to defend your purchases, sorry if you felt you needed to. I simply wanted to learn. I do know what a Stiletto is and fully understand the Scorpion will have been designed with this in mind. It would still be interesting if you placed spikes at the four corners of the Stiletto (on my PT plinth each cone overlaps the 2 sides of the plinth) when auditioning the Scorpion. I don't know if I have done the correct thing in removing my base board, it made life more easy for me to exit my arm cable.

  15. #35
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    I will test to set spikes on the corners to se what it will show , even if i will test to have them attached to the baseboard.
    If you have done the right thing i dont know ....
    But how often do you change your armcable ?

    /L
    Tangerine Audio Stiletto, Plateau, Skorpion, SME V ( D ), Dynavector DRT XV 1S, Chord Signature Tuned Aray, Linn Cirkus, Linn Radikal Klimax, Tranquility
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  16. #36
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    I don't change the armcable, removing the baseboard made it easier to exit the arm cable on my PT due to the fact the armboard has been glued and not screwed to the sub chassis (this had been done before I purchased the deck) Good luck with demo and luck forward to your findings.

  17. #37
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    Ahh now i understand what you ment about exit the arm cable, yes itīs much easyier too draw it another way from the arm out from plinth
    PT ???
    Thanks will come back with my findings about this.

    /L
    Tangerine Audio Stiletto, Plateau, Skorpion, SME V ( D ), Dynavector DRT XV 1S, Chord Signature Tuned Aray, Linn Cirkus, Linn Radikal Klimax, Tranquility
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  18. #38
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    The turntable I have is a Pink Triangle PTtoo

  19. #39
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    Nice
    Tangerine Audio Stiletto, Plateau, Skorpion, SME V ( D ), Dynavector DRT XV 1S, Chord Signature Tuned Aray, Linn Cirkus, Linn Radikal Klimax, Tranquility
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    A slight hijack of the thread but I was curious of the benefits of having an aluminium plinth, yes they'd be fantastically solid but metal resonates, if you're wanting something that's inert then you'd want one out of something less 'pingy'. I've seen one made from corian and it's a heavy, solid and very dead lump. It's less pretty but if your goal is a optimum sound quality from a record player then I'd be looking elsewhere.

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